Saturday, January 22, 2011

HIST300A: TJ's "Notes on the State of Virginia"

Why do you think TJ wrote this?

Other thoughts? Questions? Criticisms?

20 comments:

  1. Thomas Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, while seeming coming off more as a comparative look at the animals of the new world versus the old world, rather than just a study of Virginia (at least from the excerpt given for the reading). It none the less provides a look into humans starting to question how things have come to be the way they are. The most obvious example is Jefferson writing about a corpse that he believes to be a mammoth and not an elephant as some of his time argued. As to why Thomas Jefferson wrote this, I think it had to do with him wanting a better understanding of the environment. Jefferson attempts to understand how and why certain animals live in specific habitats. His understanding is largely based on temperature.

    The most significant part of the excerpt from Jefferson’s work is his defense of including the mammoth in his study of the old world and new world animals despite its extinction, which he throws into question. If anything Jefferson paper point out the need for analysis of the environment of the new world.

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  2. I think Jefferson wrote this paper to emphasize the need to understand America’s environments. Being influenced by the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution, Jefferson would value logic and scientific understandings of the world over simple assumptions made by others. Though, on a more simplistic level, this writing may just be an instrument for Jefferson to better understand his homeland.

    I was wondering if Jefferson has some sort of political agenda behind this? At times it seems like Jefferson is trying to highlight differences between America and Europe and establish America as superior to Europe because of its greater variety and size of wildlife. At other times, though, he does concede that certain European animals are larger than their counterparts in America.

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  3. I think Jefferson wrote Notes on the States of Virginia to bring environmental issues/questions to the forefront. Aside from being a politician, Jefferson is known for his interests in science-he was also an avid inventor-further expressing his curiosity for new discoveries. His support of the Lewis and Clark expedition; which significantly advanced geographic and scientific knowledge in North America (although it was years after the Notes on Va)- shows Jefferson’s passion and curiosity for environmental studies continued.
    Shows evidence of relations between American politicians and native tribes. Also it appears the there was communication between the two about animals that were in the area, including the mammoth which natives were familiar with from ancient stories that had been passed down. There is also some insight into native mentality of animals at the time that bear, deer, elks, buffalo, and other animals had been created for the Indians. This could disprove the “eco-Indian” myth; that natives were not equals with their environment but believed instead that the environment was there for their own use.
    The myths about the movement of animals are also very interesting- first thing I wondered was how do the native myths about the new world, conflict with the Christian beliefs of creation?
    Jefferson describes the various bones that have been discovered- alluding that people were interested in understanding the development of the new world on an ecological level- there is also insight into their methods of understanding archeological finds at the time. Like the first explorers to arrive in the New World, Jefferson shows the continued curiosity on the difference in size of New World and Old World mammals. It is interesting to see how comparisons were made- Jefferson uses weight to compare mammals in each continent.
    How were Jefferson’s studies viewed? Did people at the time use them as a model for studying New World species?

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  4. I believe Thomas Jefferson wrote Notes on the State of Virginia because there was not enough analytical and scientific debate occurring in the public. People were not questioning what they were being told to believe, and were just accepting things as true and natural. I believe Jefferson wrote this to encourage new thought among Americans, and to break away from European thought and practice. What better way to do this than by encouraging the masses to think scientifically instead of accepting what was "truth"
    T. Jefferson uses his theory that new world species are just as good as Old world species to back his opinion of Native Americans. He believes them to be pure, cultured and in some ways better than Europeans because they have yet to experience corruption...why then does he use the same logic in condemning black Africans to slavery?

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  5. Thomas Jefferson wrote the article to prove that the New World was just as good as the old world, and to show that the rumors and so called logical statements that were put forth by the "experts", in Europe were false. Also, that these experts had never been to America, but were basing entire arguments about Europe being superior, solely on what they were told by others. Others who probably were fanatical in their belief that Europeans were superior to the Native Americans. I think that possibly Jefferson could have wrote this piece after someone might have said a comment about the European thinkers at the time also being superior to those of America, and so Jefferson's pride kicked in and he set out to prove them wrong.

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  6. I believe Jefferson wrote this to examine both the fauna of the new world, and the claims being made concerning it. In his writing, he lays out the claims of many people of the time, and then goes to length to not only prove them wrong, but also to discredit their authority to make these claims.

    It appears that in this, he is not only making scientific observations, but also a cultural one. While people in the old world made unfounded assumptions about the American continent, people such as Jefferson were actually there to witness the landscape and wildlife. This article seems to be an attack on those people who had never left Europe, but were ready to pass judgements on America and attributes they had heard about.

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  7. The reading on Jefferson is convincing and informative. His remarks appear to be factually based and the contradictions he makes toward others observations seem to produce legitimate evidence. It seems as the crux of his argument is in favor of the new world being just as good as Europe. He in some ways shows slight favoritism toward to the new world and discredits the experts who were speaking about it in an inferior manner. It is clear that the other remarks were made by those who had little to no personal experience in the new world and basing all points made on information they had been told concerning it. In addition, I think Jefferson wanted to attempt to encourage critical thought on the new world as well as breaking the mold of European thinking. He talks about Native Americans from an open minded stand points instead of a belittling one consistent with the European ones. Jefferson's thought provoking approach on the new world is contagious and his curiosity is very interesting to read about.

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  8. As we read in the Crosby readings,arriving in the New World people saw and assumed that the animals were on a smaller scale then that in the Old World. One reason this is so is because we did not have horses, cattle and pigs and so on. Since we did not have these larger animals they assumed that all the animals were smaller.
    Thomas Jefferson points out that there is more second had comparision between the two worlds. But when you break it down, it seems that the New World does have larger animals. On the note of the mammoth,Jefferson is looking at the different climate zones that effect an animals range of roaming. He listens to the Indians, and does not denounce them like some men of his time. I think he is really trying to point out that there is much we do not know of the New World, and by understanding the scientific aspects of the New World, it will give us a greater understanding.

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  9. Thomas Jefferson was an observer of his surroundings, and in writing this essay he was documenting the culture of Virginia after it had been permanently settled for a couple of centuries. He also clearly wants to give this account an air of the unknown that had been associated with the New World ever since its “discovery.” He mentions some archeological findings that were very difficult to identify, adding his own analysis of one particularly strange creature, deemed the “mammoth.” In this description Jefferson shows the archeological debates of the time, as well as his own musings over such scientific discoveries and how they tie to the bigger picture of the world.

    Despite this “otherness” that he first creates in his essay, he is also showing how all the continents of the world share similarities amongst all of their differences, saying, “as if both sides were not warmed by the same genial sun,” in rebuke of the belief that one side of the world was more active than the other. By saying that all animals “derive their dimensions from the same nutritive juices,” Jefferson is countering the common belief that the New and Old Worlds were so very different from one another.

    In the charts that he provides in this essay, Jefferson also shows how there is still much research to be done and people therefore should not make so many assumptions about wildlife in the New World. In using a variety of sources, Jefferson is showing that he is knowledgeable on the subject about which he is writing, so readers can trust his judgment. He is thus able to present detailed information and analyze it, and then use his findings to connect the New with the Old.

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  10. I think the reason that Thomas Jefferson wrote this essay was that he wanted to provide information about the similarities and differences among the areas across the world. The difference that he added in the essay was that the Old and New Worlds are uncommon. What I liked about this essay was that I realized that he knew so much about the wilderness in the Americas. There are mammoths in the New World which makes animals in the Americas more immense than the animals in Europe. I learned a lot more reading Jefferson's essay than Crosby's because I feel that Jefferson's work is more credible than Crosby's book.

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  11. From examining the quote “ that nature is less active, less energetic on one side of the globe than she is on the other, As if both sides were not warmed by the same genial sun” shows that Jefferson was trying to prove the legitimacy of North America and those who inhabited it (mainly European settlers). A man in our class by the name William Roark posted a blog with remarks to European thinkers believing they were superior to that of the “rustic” American, and I can definitely see how this could be an attempt to disprove the focal European conceptions about Americans during this time.

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  12. I believe that Jefferson wrote this to put into writing the stark differences between the Old and New world. Since there is an abundance of new animals and plants in this new world, he is trying to understand his surroundings and map out the land. Jefferson doesn’t want to side with one continent or another but he counters arguments from other writers that America and its nature is equivalent or even superior to that of Europe. He does this to provide an accurate view of the new world since other writers were making observations that were not accurate and made the new world seem like a "wild" and undesirable place to live.

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  13. I did not expect the beginning of “Notes on the State of Virginia” to open as a debate centered on mammoths. It seems that Jefferson brings up the mammoths debate to debunk the writings of Monsieur Buffon. Jefferson alludes to Buffon throughout the text; I think the two should have just dueled to solve their differences, thus saving us all from the several pages of animal charts. Jefferson’s writing makes his interest in the natural world become readily apparent, because he dives deeply into the subject. Also, compiling the charts must have taken a great deal of time to compose, so the topic mattered to him. I thought it was a cold move for Jefferson to slam the French scientists with his very last sentence: “Have they not been so ignorant as often to mistake the species?”

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  14. I think Thomas Jefferson wrote this to examine and explain the new fauna of the New World. Like Bradford, Jefferson is trying to comprehend the New World. Bradford looked at it through a religious lens while Jefferson looks at it with a scientific lens. I found it interesting when Jefferson was debunking the theories of moisture and heat affecting animal growth. Although we know climate is important to animal adaptations, it is not the only factor involved. Jefferson does a good job at proving these theories wrong without siding against them, or with them, but by simply observing and sharing his observations.

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  15. Why did Thomas Jefferson write about the distinction of the elephant from the mammoth as two different animals? Jefferson bases most of his findings from Mons De Buffon’s writings.

    I think what he wrote is a metaphor for something else. Last semester, I took the Early Republic class with Professor Mackintosh and we discussed Jefferson who was an agrarian. I might be over thinking this, but Jefferson could be writing about the distinctions between the developments of industry in the North and the agrarian planters in the South. Jefferson writes about universal destruction, which makes me think he is referring to the destruction that industry has done to the environment.

    After reading what Jefferson wrote again; I began to think about the Europeans as being the tremendous animal that destroyed the nature that once benefitted the Native American Indians.

    Is Jefferson writing about race and the difference between Europeans and Native American Indians?

    Jefferson was a part of the Second Continental Congress in 1775 as a Virginian delegate, so I think his writings could be politically based.

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  16. I think that Thomas Jefferson wrote this essay to show that there are definitely similarities and differences between both the New and the Old world. Yes, the climates are really different and there are different plants, crop and animals however the preserved fossils created a link to the so called "past." The question was whether the Mammoth's are related to Elephants since their build and mannerisms are similar. Jefferson wanted to point out that the circumstance was very interesting but with the time frame of the bones and the unknown, it is hard to conclude if they are related to each other or not. The Old and New world are different but are quite alike at the same time.

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  17. It would seem that in this piece TJ, the ever scientific and observant man that he was, sought to both demonstrate his vast knowledge while providing a cohesive collection of certain things he observed. A man of science, he no doubt was trying to make more sense of the new animal and plant varieties, not just to explain it to other in Europe, but to clarify questions he himself had.

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  18. I think that Thomas Jefferson wrote this to piece to give people in Europe an idea of the types of animals that lived in the New World. He was trying to compare the different animals and plants that he was encountering in the New World to the ones that were in the Old World. I think he was also trying to demonstrate the differences in the plants and animals because of the different types of climate and other natural things in the New World than in the Old World. His first hand account also gives people a more confirmed study and account on these things because many scientists could have been writing about things they had heard or only seen in the New World for a short period of time but he has had time to study these different things and make a more thorough account.

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  19. By having this article comparing and contrasting the features of the mammoth to other known species at the time it is Thomas Jefferson’s way of making sense of the environment around them. I really liked the inclusion of the Indian myth in this passage I had never heard this story before.

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  20. I think one motivation for writing this section of Notes on the State of Virginia is to respond to the ideas of biogeography presented by Comte de Buffon. Buffon suggested that all the animal species originated from a central beginning region (old world), often degrading as they moved into new areas and regions (new world). Buffon explains the inferiority of new world species is caused by climate differences - the new world is too hot and too moist (169, 170).

    As a side note: I think its important to look at the religious implications of this argument. Since many religions believe a higher being created the earth and its environments, it can be said that theidea that degenerate species were caused by the new world climate implies that god created the new world as inferior to the old world.

    I think Jefferson is arguing that species haven't degenerated, but possibly advanced, in order to deconstruct the hierarchal comparisons of the new and old worlds. The new world was not inherently subordinate. By showing comparative flaws, he can establish that the worlds are similar, but are different enough to each hold separate opportunities for Western civilization. Jefferson ends by identifying the new world's largest and one of its most spectacular species - the mammoth. Although its believed to be extinct, Jefferson uses it to represent the mystery and wonderment of the new world's wilderness; and also what it has to offer. Despite the new world's arguable shortcomings, there was still a lot to be learned, discovered, and extracted from the land. Even though explorers and scientists made claims about the land and Native Americans told stories and myths about the North and West, no one really knew what was out there and what the land held for the colonies.

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